Official Luthiers Forum!

I wonder if this would be of any benefit . It seems that we regularly get people looking or asking about , repair work , set up work etc: in their individual state . What would the members think of having a Sub-forum with the states as threads that we could enter our Name and contact information into if we wish, to answer most of those questions , or provide that type service .

I know that could create a lot of information for the various country's as well and I don't have all the answers . Like I said its just an Idea , and would need refined .

Whatta ya think ?

_________________
The Shallower the depth of the stream , The Louder the Babble !
The Taking Of Offense Is the Life Course Of The Stupid One !
Wanna Leave a Better Planet for our Kids? How about Working on BETTER KIDS for our Planet !
Forgiveness is the ability to accept an apology that you will probably NEVER GET
The truth will set you free , But FIRST, it will probably Piss you Off !
Creativity is allowing yourself to make Mistakes, Art is knowing which ones to Keep !
The Saddest thing anyone can do , is push a Loyal Person to the point that they Dont Care Anymore
Never met a STRONG person who had an EASY past !
http://wiksnwudwerks.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/groups/GatewayA ... rAssembly/

I see a couple of problems with it.

First I field calls all day long, emails too, where folks want us to triage their stinkin guitar via email or a call. Often too folks really just want to know where to stick that Crapsman screwdriver and make it all better.... Lots of choices on that one..... And I typically reserve the right to have all of these choices in mind but I digress.

We already have FRETS.net where a lot of this stuff is done daily, helping folks with wounded instruments.

Repair is a bit different in so much as we can correctly describe a piece of wood to each other on an Internet forum. Now attempt to describe the condition of an instrument and ALL things about it that could be related to a problem.... Not easy to do.

Repair work needs to be seen in person to give the best advice regarding a way forward with any repairs.

Lastly I'm happy to lend a hand with repair questions from other builders and repair folks but I would not want to see the OLF turned into a place where folks join to ask about their stinkin Squire Strat and then book once we have to write War and Peace in an effort to get them to properly describe the thing to us....

And really, really lastly personally I come here to relax and have fun. If I have to see, read, or hear more repair centric woes it's not much of a break for me.... FRETS does this very, very well.

And really, really, really, really lastly there are issues associated with referrals from Internet forums..... First and foremost being that Internet forum participants who are not in the trade or builders tend to be covered with the previous snake oil and untrue crap that they read on some forum. Instead of seeking a trusted source to advice them as to the proper fix often it's the case that they read about this or that online and just want some flunky with a bandsaw to actually do the deed for them. Not the kind of biz or client that I want.

And finally.... the last thing that the OLF needs in my opinion is yet another sub forum. We have already diluted the value here in my view with all of the various sub forums some of which are devoid of activity. Keep it simple, do a few things very well instead of many things crappy....

All good valid points.. that's why I asked .. didn't say was good idea.

I guess what I had in mind was if a person was looking for someone close that Could do face to face ... not online ....

_________________
The Shallower the depth of the stream , The Louder the Babble !
The Taking Of Offense Is the Life Course Of The Stupid One !
Wanna Leave a Better Planet for our Kids? How about Working on BETTER KIDS for our Planet !
Forgiveness is the ability to accept an apology that you will probably NEVER GET
The truth will set you free , But FIRST, it will probably Piss you Off !
Creativity is allowing yourself to make Mistakes, Art is knowing which ones to Keep !
The Saddest thing anyone can do , is push a Loyal Person to the point that they Dont Care Anymore
Never met a STRONG person who had an EASY past !
http://wiksnwudwerks.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/groups/GatewayA ... rAssembly/

I'm not crazy about it. I used to have clients come in and ask me to teach them how to do guitar repair (or how to build a guitar), like I could do it in an afternoon.... Then I would remind them I would be stupid to do so, as they would no longer need me. Also, I can speak from experience that trying to even estimate a repair over the phone (without seeing the instrument), let along helping someone repair the instrument is an exercise in frustration. For best results, I need to see the problem with my own eyes! I don't mind helping once in awhile... but let's not get carried away.

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"Act your age, not your shoe size" - Prince

Thanks for chiming in , thats why its a question ..

_________________
The Shallower the depth of the stream , The Louder the Babble !
The Taking Of Offense Is the Life Course Of The Stupid One !
Wanna Leave a Better Planet for our Kids? How about Working on BETTER KIDS for our Planet !
Forgiveness is the ability to accept an apology that you will probably NEVER GET
The truth will set you free , But FIRST, it will probably Piss you Off !
Creativity is allowing yourself to make Mistakes, Art is knowing which ones to Keep !
The Saddest thing anyone can do , is push a Loyal Person to the point that they Dont Care Anymore
Never met a STRONG person who had an EASY past !
http://wiksnwudwerks.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/groups/GatewayA ... rAssembly/

The MIMF has a repair section where people can ask questions and seek advice. It works O.K.
Having a sub forum with people's contact information might be a can of worms. It might appear to give credibility to people who are not qualified to do professional quality repairs as well as provide a forum for unreasonably disgruntled customers to castigate and disparage the efforts of people who have done reasonable repairs. Not being in the repair business it wouldn't concern me personally, either way. I repair my flea market finds, but don't generally do repairs for the public.

Lolololol....... ok in the 1-10 range of bad ideas ole wud hit a 9.anyway . All your points are good ones .. but thanx for chiming in

_________________
The Shallower the depth of the stream , The Louder the Babble !
The Taking Of Offense Is the Life Course Of The Stupid One !
Wanna Leave a Better Planet for our Kids? How about Working on BETTER KIDS for our Planet !
Forgiveness is the ability to accept an apology that you will probably NEVER GET
The truth will set you free , But FIRST, it will probably Piss you Off !
Creativity is allowing yourself to make Mistakes, Art is knowing which ones to Keep !
The Saddest thing anyone can do , is push a Loyal Person to the point that they Dont Care Anymore
Never met a STRONG person who had an EASY past !
http://wiksnwudwerks.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/groups/GatewayA ... rAssembly/

I tend to agree with the other comments on this one. I really just started repairing guitars for the "general public" a couple of years ago. Prior to that it was all referrals from people that I have done work for. In the last couple of years I have had a number of people calling me for advice on how to fix their own guitars and questions that can't possibly be answered on the phone. When it comes down to the dirt I always tell them to bring their guitar to me so I can actually evaluate it so I can give them a quote for repairs. I usually never hear from them again. It seems like a special forum posting our numbers would just invite more of the same. Currently about 99% of my work still comes from referrals and I could probably just shut my web page down since it just seems to generate people calling to ask stupid questions.

Maybe someone would get a benefit from a sub forum here but I would be reluctant to post my business on it.

Bob

I like the idea of a listing but subforum might not be the way to go. A few problems I see.

The member might list themselves and stop with guitar building.

Keeping the list active and updated requires some energy

As some others stated could be bad business

I wouldn't mind having a list though where no one could comment,for example if I moved to Idaho and wanted to look up local luthiers it might be easier to look at the list rather than post it and hope the idahoans (is that even a word) would respond or even get to see the thread. Although I am sure if they googled it, it might work just as well. I'm not totally for it but I am not against the idea either.

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久保
美智え

Actually this is more of what I had in mind. Thank you!

_________________
The Shallower the depth of the stream , The Louder the Babble !
The Taking Of Offense Is the Life Course Of The Stupid One !
Wanna Leave a Better Planet for our Kids? How about Working on BETTER KIDS for our Planet !
Forgiveness is the ability to accept an apology that you will probably NEVER GET
The truth will set you free , But FIRST, it will probably Piss you Off !
Creativity is allowing yourself to make Mistakes, Art is knowing which ones to Keep !
The Saddest thing anyone can do , is push a Loyal Person to the point that they Dont Care Anymore
Never met a STRONG person who had an EASY past !
http://wiksnwudwerks.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/groups/GatewayA ... rAssembly/

Sometimes I wish I had a 900 number so at least I could bill for the free diagnosis. I have a "customer" ( I use that term loosely as this guy has never actually given me any money) who calls once every six to eight months with questions ranging from how to get better tone out of his solid state amp to why his prs se is different from the American version etc.
He is so polite on the phone it is hard to just hang up on him even I know he will never give me any business.

My standard answer to people like that goes something like this:

So, What business are you in? Hey I am a Stock Broker at XYZ exhange and I do bla... bla.... bla....

Then I politely say:

When you know my only income is repairing guitars, and much like you I pride myself in the quality work I do. I don't mean to be intrusive but I will tell you what, If you give me free advice on buying stocks then I will be more than happy to keep giving you free advice on your guitars and how to fix them. I normally charge $45 an hour for consulting work and will be happy to help you. Or we could exchange services and you could give me your service in exchange for mine. Or I will be happy to set up an account for you.

They get the point and I usually never hear from them again.

I have actually used that on 2 occasions except the last one they guy said he was retired and was living on a pension... But he still got the idea that my time and advice is not always free.

Cheers,
Bob

We have a battery powered, animated Frog that was a present to us from Luthier Herb David. Of course my genius biz partner David Collins can't leave anything alone.... So now our frog has been modified complete with electric guitar in hand and what looks like a joint hanging out of his mouth. When we get telemarketing calls or calls from anyone for that matter that we don't want to speak with the phone gets placed by the animated frog and it's button gets pressed.

The frog goes though a couple minute rendition of "Thank God I'm A Country Boy" and then shuts off. It dances too....

Last week one caller from India survived the frog not once, not twice, but three times so we had to simply hang up on the guy.

It's our personal assistant so to speak taking some of the administrative burden of answering the phone off us....

I'll try to remember to get a pic tomorrow when back in the city shop.

By the way back on topic here we turn business away daily. Just because one does repairs does not mean that one needs more work. We most certainly don't and have all the work that we want and need and more. When this happens, and it's a good thing, thoughts go from marketing and advertising, perhaps listings like Wud is discussing here to how to throttle the business with the meaning being "regulate" the pipeline not choke the living crap out of it....

Can't see much harm in "Find a Luthier" sub-forum.
Thread titles like "Any luthiers near South Bend??" should create a searchable list of recommendations that would be valuable to more than a few, I'm sure.

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Dave
Milton, ON

I do like the Idea of the list being set so no comments on the list are available ... Again was just a idea

_________________
The Shallower the depth of the stream , The Louder the Babble !
The Taking Of Offense Is the Life Course Of The Stupid One !
Wanna Leave a Better Planet for our Kids? How about Working on BETTER KIDS for our Planet !
Forgiveness is the ability to accept an apology that you will probably NEVER GET
The truth will set you free , But FIRST, it will probably Piss you Off !
Creativity is allowing yourself to make Mistakes, Art is knowing which ones to Keep !
The Saddest thing anyone can do , is push a Loyal Person to the point that they Dont Care Anymore
Never met a STRONG person who had an EASY past !
http://wiksnwudwerks.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/groups/GatewayA ... rAssembly/

Sounds like a noble gesture up front, but here are the potential pitfalls I would be concerned with.

1) It opens potential for competition in a community that is traditionally more focused on comradery between colleagues. Maybe not often, and the same can be true whenever someone comes in to ask for a referral on the general forum, but making it a regular reference I feel would affect this more so.

2) It seems a standard referral list would imply some sort of vetting by the forum host or general community. What objective standards would apply to earn a place on such list? Would there be a rating system or breakdown of specialties? I could foresee many cases where a shop may be placed on such a list which many members would shudder at the idea of work being trusted with. If someone needs a neck reset on their '43 Southern Jumbo and sees a referral to a shop which others know are not suited to accept such a job, what then? Bite your tongue in the name of community civility and let the guitar be butchered, or speak up and openly criticize a fellow member (who we may get along with quite well on a personal level) essentially as a hack?


A noble idea, but with no universal standards of qualifications to make the list, and the potential to put members either competing for jobs, or worse, having to choose whether to remain silent or disparage others for being overconfident and under qualified. Better in my opinion to leave that can unopened, and if people come here for referrals on occasion let it play out through PM's and on a case by case basis rather than posting a stock open endorsement list.

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Eschew obfuscation, espouse elucidation.

Too funny. What a great idea. I think I'm going to start singing to telemarketers. That should scare them off in a hurry. I'm already panning my set list in my head. One for the girls and one for the boys.

Wouldn't a "sticky" up front "...OLF does not guarantee the work or vouch for any of the Luthiers mentioned .... information only ..." type of thing pretty much take care of that? Nothing wrong with posting "I'm a luthier working in South Bend" to a query.

Guess I just don't buy the reluctance to provide a resource to the majority because the possibility exists the odd one might try to use it to advantage.

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Dave
Milton, ON

I hear the arguments against it, there are some fine details that can be hammered out. I still do not think it is such a bad idea to have a list of luthiers who are established, not jokers like me who are just starting, around so just maybe I can say oh Hesh lives nearby let me see if I can get him a couple shots of whiskey and maybe he will spill some secrets. (Even though I don't live near you, offer stands if I ever come through hehe)

Maybe I am thinking more like it could be indexed to better navigate. This doesn't necessarily have to be taken up by the OLF but a reference point like that does not really exist where it would be respected.

_________________
久保
美智え

I think it's a great idea wud. I'm constantly scrolling through the who are ya and where are you from thread to see who all is local. I think having a list by state would be a great resource. You don't have to put your info on there if you don't want to. But if you are interested in meeting other local luthiers it could be excellent.

This works well with me.....

Kidding of course... but what I wanted to add is that YOU have a standing invitation to visit Ann Arbor Guitars any time that you wish!

Well now, Hesh ...Auchentoshan 21 year old ?... dream on ...

Back in the real world, I was given a bottle of this below by a customer whose "Martin" formica guitar I brought back into playability ... I don't actually drink the stuff as a rule , but I will reserve it for my next visit across the pond and if as I hope I can make it to Ann Arbor, we can share a wee dram thegither ...och aye ...

Yeah that will work nicely too!!!

Don't you love those Martin Formica guitars...... Some of the phenolic fret boards look so real that I have actually made the mistake of applying Howard Feed-n-wax to them attempting to condition the board..... I actually did this yesterday and it was not the first time either...

Murray you have a standing invitation as well my friend!

Im trying to stop accepting so many repairs so I can actually build - mabye if there were a few more repair men around - I could get some guitars done!!!
cheers
charliewood